A Conversation With Holly Walsh and Jennifer Bell on Courtship

Well, if we're not talking about how to manage marriage/sex, we're talking about how to get in on this marriage/sex business. Oh, that sounds so crude. Alas, how should we talk about it? What's a single Christian to do? If you're single, you know what's out there. Dating naysayers. Crazy romantic idealists. Your mother.

So, we're going to talk about courtship, and we have someone perfect for our discussion: Holly Walsh. She did it! Not only did she enter into a courtship and marry the guy, but now—years later—she finds herself thinking about how it all works, because she has kids who are on the edge of that precipice I personally dread: that time when one's kids are thinking about relationships with members of the opposite sex. Thankfully, I'm not there yet. But she is.

Jennifer: Holly, you expert you. Most of us have an understanding of what dating is, but could you explain what "courtship" is, and why Christians are possibly into it?

Holly: Expert?! Pshaw. You crack me up, Jennifer.

Jennifer: Before we get going, I should share that Holly and I go waaaaayyyyy back. We’ve known each other for maybe twenty years (I’m not entirely sure how long it’s been), so it’s likely I’m going to say some outrageous things. My mistake is that I will also publicly post those outrageous things.

Holly: In all honesty, after being married for fifteen years, I feel much less sure of anything anymore. But I will share my experiences and thoughts on the topic of courtship in hopes that they might be helpful to someone somewhere.

I think that the term courtship has meant so many things throughout the ages. Really, the term has been used to describe the most arranged of unions and the most casual of romances.  I think if we’re talking about what courtship means today in Christian circles, the term courtship is used in contrast to dating, and is meant to be a focused pursuit of a spouse with marriage being the end goal. 

It’s not hard to see the problems with dating. It’s so easy to get hurt or to waste time on someone who isn't serious about marriage. It’s too easy to go too far and end up committed to the wrong person. Dating is often messy, painful, and time-consuming.

These days, things are even harder in the dating world. The social pressure to "hook up," send pics, and sext all put women at high risk for making SERIOUS mistakes. It is no wonder that Christians are running for the shelter of something like courtship. 

Jennifer: Okay, so let me clarify something. Courtship is for the purpose, then, of finding someone to marry? In dating, people often say that they’re just “having fun.” One can date without the intention to marry. Courtship is not like that, right? Also, let’s be clear on this point, too. Courtship presupposes or assumes that the parties are not engaged in premarital sex?

Holly:  I would say, yes. The goal of courtship is to find a spouse and its purpose is pursue someone who seems like a good match and get to know him or her more to see if things could work out in the future.

The rules vary here and there, but basically the hope is that courtship can protect both parties from things like heartbreak and getting physically intimate ahead of time. Courtship assumes that both parties are wanting marriage and are ready for it (as much as one can be ready for marriage). It begins like this: The guy should observe potential girls kind of stealth-like.

Jennifer: I love that. Stealth-like.

Holly: When he finds one, the guy should ask the father of the girl for permission to court. The idea of spending time alone together is a big no-no. Ideally, one would have mutual friends to hang out with throughout the courtship process. Another caution that we had heard in our circle was to avoid establishing romantic attachments throughout the process. So, basically, no flowers, love notes, mixed tapes, etc. That way, if things didn’t work out, no one would get hurt.  These were the guidelines we were working with when going into our courtship.

Jennifer: That no-romantic-attachment thing sounds like some B.S. to me, considering—let’s be frank—the poor girl is rarely gonna see the love notes and mixed tapes again.

I don’t fully get how it works. My husband and I didn’t really do it, though I don’t think we actually dated either. We just skipped everything and got married. I do vaguely remember going to see The Notebook (alone, mind you) and making out in a car, which now strikes me as the epitome of romantic idiocy. That’s going to be one of those outrageous things I regret saying, isn’t it? So, tell me: How did it work for you? How did you guys do it?

Holly: I felt like courtship was weird. I mean, like really, really weird. Our social awkwardness didn’t help. So Jason and I were twenty-seven and twenty-five, respectively. We had known of each other and gone to the same church for a couple years. We almost never talked during those years. Then one day, after church, Jason asked if I’d like to go out with him. Now, our church circle was tight and I knew that he held the same view of courtship that I did at the time. For him to ask me out meant something more than a declaration that he wanted coffee. He must’ve been thinking about marriage . . . with me??? Um, what? Yikes. It was instantly terrifying and nerve-wracking. I called my pastor in a panic, telling him that Jason asked me out. He said that Jason had also talked to him. Uh-oh. So, from the get-go, I felt pressure. It was confusing because I kept thinking that I had to get to know this person and figure out if I liked him enough to marry him. The process was so, so focused. My logical brain was in overdrive . . . Do I like what he does for work? Do I like how he handles things? Do I think he’s cute? How many children does he want? Big questions crowded our times together. We tended to go out alone to public places. We just weren’t able to talk freely with friends. Then, there were all these things—skeletons in my closet—that I had to reveal and I was scared! Sigh. It was awkward. It was NOT fun. 

After about three months of this torture, like a couple of clueless dorks, we agreed we were compatible and decided to proceed with marriage with hardly any emotion stirred. Well, I guess there was a lot of anxiety and fear, now that I think about it. But there were definitely no flowers and no romance. Well, we did make out a couple of times. . . a wonder.

Jennifer: I’m so glad you said that, because I was just going to ask.

Well, let me ask you something. This lack of stirred emotions. Really? Then, why did you make out? And, trust me, I know how it goes. Emotional stirring is not a prerequisite for making out, but you. What were you thinking?

Holly:  Yes, really, there were no romantic feelings. It was so objective. I can only explain the making out thing chemically. Maybe it was the hormones or pheromones??  

I’m sure parents of young adults are completely hopeless and freaked out now. 

Jennifer: I am.

Holly: But back to the Robo-tron nature of it all: although it was not fun, I was okay with something more like a business transaction at the time because of my previous experience with the opposite sex. Previously, I had had no rules or guidance to help me navigate my relationships. I had been led completely by emotions with no logical objectivity, and I wound up in a huge mess. So, in an earnest effort to avoid that again, logical and dry were fine with me, even though it completely goes against my natural emotive personality. And, as far as Jason was concerned, he was definitely in his element.

Jennifer: Ha! The logical and dry thing worked for him!

Holly: I think he loved it.

Jennifer: What do you think of this lack of romance? I mean, one big lesson we tend to learn as adults is that romance is not the same thing as love. It makes sense to not base this massive decision on how one feels, but . . . is there a problem here too?

Holly:  I think the lack of romance definitely can cause some problems. First thing, the idea is to protect the heart from becoming attached prematurely.  Okay, I get that, but—in reality—some attachment is unavoidable. Let’s face it, if things don’t work out, someone is gonna get his or her feelings hurt, even if there has been no sweet talk. Besides, I think making someone you are interested in possibly marrying feel special, loved, and beautiful is a very good thing. I give honest compliments to complete strangers and thoughtful gifts to friends. I just spent fourteen bucks on a birthday present for my son’s friend. It’s okay to make a special person feel special. Now, in our personal story, this lack of romance in the beginning did create a painful obstacle in our relationship.  After we were married, like you mentioned, there were still no mixed tapes or love notes and, honestly, I felt a little disappointed. Actually, I was devastated. Was I just acquired like a head of cattle?? That took some time for us to work through. Like nine or ten years.

Jennifer: I hear you, sister. TIM, I WANT A #$@% MIXED TAPE.

Holly: Jason just reminded me that he did indeed create two cds for me: one in 2003, four years and three children after we were married; and he made another one in 2006.  He is getting better with age, I might add. Last year, he danced with me and he will be dancing again here soon for my birthday.

Jennifer: I should say that I’m not a big fan of courtship, but I really don’t know the best way to go about this relationship thing. What bothers me is the artificiality of it all. It sounds like myth, like fantasy. Under very contrived circumstances, two poor kids are supposed to “get to know” each other—under the false presumption (false, if you ask me) that they’re being protected. The truth is they’re not being themselves, and it’s going to be a big shock when they wake up naked and committed to a stranger. Yuck.

Holly:  Ooooh, interesting. I pretty much think the waking up committed to a stranger is going to happen to some degree in any circumstance. I mean, really, you just can’t know what you’re signing up for.   But I do agree, there is kind of a false presumption about protection in courtship. The reality is that this sin thing is just hard to shake.

Jennifer: You mentioned the pressure, the Big Questions, the skeletons in the closet. Big questions and skeletons (which we all have, if not externally then internally) seem to require intimacy and privacy. That pressure creates an artificiality. Also, it’s as if courtship assumes that the ideal is the reality, that guys and girls will behave in perfectly God-honoring ways, free from their baggage or their misconceptions about gender or sexuality (not to mention the assumption that there’s a dad to oversee the situation or that the girl is still a girl and not a woman in her thirties or forties). The truth of the matter is that these things mess up courtship. Guys and girls are not free from their baggage, their misconceptions, or their sexuality. Courtship is saying: make this big huge decision as if the world were perfect, though it’s not. What do you think of that?

Holly:  I think that is an interesting way to analyze the problem. I also think that there’s a real problem with courtship. It seems to fit into a purer world better. Because it does seem too contrived. The idea of really getting to sort out your own misconceptions and figure out who it is that you should marry—well, I don’t mean to be radical, but it is a wonder any marriage ever makes it.

Jennifer: I agree with you. In all honesty, I’ve gotten a lot of counsel on how to deal with marriage-related issues that might work under ideal circumstances, but not in a fallen world. And it can be devastating. So do we shift our dating/courtship/marriage schemes to fit a fallen world, or do we hold on tightly no matter what the costs (which may include an emotionally-crippled marriage)?

Holly:  You know, I think there are so many factors involved in each person’s situation that we have to custom-tailor the process to each individual. Things like personality, history, family situation, social circles, and sin tendencies have to be considered when trying to guide an individual. I am thinking of my two eldest. One is incredibly reserved (like dad) and you would think the other was the son of Don Juan.  They need help in different ways.

I think one thing to hold onto is involving people like parents (if they are around) or close family or friends who know you to help and be really involved in the process of finding the right person. The one thing that makes a relationship successful is commitment to making it work and doing the work to grow.

Jennifer:  And back on the girls. Let’s just totally rip up courting. (Defenders, feel free to comment.) I think there’s an irony involved in the courtship philosophy. In striving for purity, it renders women objects. By trying to keep them from being mere sex objects, it objectifies women. They become solely sexual beings. Guys are wary of these living, breathing sexual objects who are either marriage material or they are not. Every girl is viewed through this prism: Do I want her?

Holly: Hmm. I don’t know, exactly. The girls are at liberty to choose as well, but in a different way, sort after they have already been chosen.  I see what your saying. I think it’s just not natural. Like, it would be better to find someone with whom you share interest during an outing . . . but then it is hard to find someone you gel with who is also interested in God, marriage, and commitment. So, sometimes, it’s good to let go completely of the “natural” thing, and have more of an arrangement.  I like the idea of Christian singles groups doing outings and finding true love more naturally, but with guidance and a pre-commitment assumption . . . I don’t know. Geez.

Jennifer:  Yeah. So there’s this tension between contrived set-ups and natural affections. As a mom of girls, I know I don’t want for my girls to be objectified, to feel as if their value hinges on whether they’re approached by a young stoic guy who will only talk to them if he finds them suitable for marriage. I also don’t want for them to be in loveless marriages, where the guy’s all into—what was that one article, “Hyper-headship and the Scandal of Domestic Abuse in the Church”?—hyper-headship at the expense of love and intimacy. But I also don’t want for them to be deceived by the whirlwind of misconceptions about romance.

Holly:  I think I could see the Christian courtships of today being satisfying in certain situations. I’m thinking about young, sheltered Christians (that was not me) who like rules and who tend to have a harder time socializing. Maybe? I’m thinking of some people I know who I’m guessing would just love the whole thing. I don’t know. But even then, moms, please explain to your sons how to make a girl feel special. I don’t think there is any need to stifle a guy’s clumsy romantic efforts. He needs practice, for crying out loud.  There are some good and not so good things about it. With carefulness, I think there can be a more balanced way.

Jennifer:  Okay, so in conclusion, let’s try to offer a more balanced approach. You have a bunch of strapping, fine-looking male children—some of whom I may come to dread at some point in my life. (Holly, WHY are your kids so good-looking? Why? Why? Why?) What are you going to do about this dating/courtship thing? How will you handle it?

My girls are little, and I’m in denial for a while—but I do know that I don’t want for them to get sucked into the vast black hole of the romantic comedy/prince-on-white-horse/passionate-love-songs-sung-by-hunky-dumb-guys that I fell into. Nor do I want them in sad, lonely, falsely-spiritual marriages that suck them dry. I said this stuff already. Sorry. So what do we do?

Holly: I feel the same way. I hope for my boys to find a girl that they really like, and I hope they enjoy sweet friendship and deep passionate love in their marriages.

Jennifer, I wish I could offer some wisdom on how to guide girls. I am just so glad I don’t have to deal with that.  This is what we have so far for my boys:

  

·      Pursue ONLY when READY for marriage.

·      Get ready for marriage.

·      Before you are ready, keep lots of girls as friends at a nice safe distance and study them, learning about how they are different. Learn what you like and think about what you want.

·      When you are ready, PRAY.  Find someone you really like. Don’t be too distracted by charm and beauty. Look for someone who loves God.

·      If you can’t find someone, go on a Christian singles outing?

·      Let her know you really like her. Ask her out.

·      Pray

·      Try not to be alone. You CANNOT handle it; it is a chemistry thing or a physics thing. At least go to public places.

·      PRAY for help and wisdom, and talk to people you trust about your developing relationship—especially your mom.

·      Get to know the girls’ friends and family.

·      Read some books?

Jennifer:  Well, we could go on and on. Maybe another piece if there’s interest. How does one get ready for marriage?

Talking to one’s mother is definitely key. Thank you, Holly. You’re a pro!