Pastor V’s Shout-Outs by Vermon Pierre

Shout-out to:

1. Alabama Shakes and their recent album, Sound & Color. Man, that’s some good music making right there. It’s this blend of Gospel, Southern Rock, and Motown soul music that is truly unique. This blend doesn’t work well for some of the songs on here. But for the ones where it does work well (like “Don’t Want to Fight”) – whew wee!

2. Republica Empanada in downtown Mesa. I was part of panel on creative placemaking at the Mesa Arts Center on Monday night, and they had an after-party at Republica afterwards. Wow, those empandas were great! Like, seriously savory and tasty. I just might be willing to pack an extra set of clothes and my passport and make the trip all the way out to Mesa to try them out again.

3. Dave Pell and his article, “Control Balt Delete: Five Thoughts About Baltimore Organized Into a List Because the Last Thing Anyone Needs is Another Thought Piece About Baltimore.”

I appreciate articles that try to give a fuller analysis of current events. This is especially appreciated with the many recent racially-tinged events of the last year or so.

Pell notes, for example, that “kids living in violent neighborhoods don’t want fewer police and less protection, they want more of both” and that “the police in our most violent neighborhoods have a difficult, thankless, dangerous job that often fails to reward those who exhibit the best traits we could hope for.” Yes, yes, yes! At the same time, we must recognize that “where the criminal justice system fails to respond vigorously to violent injury and death, homicide becomes endemic. African Americans have suffered from just such a lack of effective criminal justice, and this, more than anything, is the reason for the nation’s long-standing plague of black homicides … The system’s failure to catch killers effectively made black lives cheap.”

Our Father’s Name by Anthony Vasquez

Our family has now been in India for a couple of months, and it has been an amazing experience. All the adjustments that one person or family has to make: for instance, learning how to fairly bargain with most merchants or how to best avoid stomach issues by learning the right way to clean produce. We have experienced so many practical aspects of adjusting to life in India that I sometimes wonder if we are being stretched or just broken into different pieces. It’s often said that by moving into a new culture, you learn more about yourself than you thought you ever would or would want to. Indeed, there are so many ways that the Lord reveals Himself to us.

For me, transitioning our life has revealed a life-long pain that I have always wished would go away. Growing up in a broken home, I always struggled with the harsh reality of not having my father around. Despite all of our attempts to reconcile our relationship, there is still a lack in my life and residual pain.  Now, here in India, on any official documentation, a person needs to sign, there is always a line after your name where you must provide your father’s name. Even for our Indian peers, the amount of documentation the government requires is comical.

And so after signing a rental agreement, one notes his or her father’s name. After registering as a foreigner, one notes his or her father’s name.  After registering at the local police office, one notes his or her father’s name.  After signing for one’s child’s school application, one notes his or her father’s name. After opening up a new bank account, one notes his or her father’s name. After signing up for a new phone plan, one notes his or her father’s name. You get the picture: it goes on and on.

After the third time I had to take note of my father’s name, my heart began to scream. Wait a second.  My father has nothing to do with this. I am getting this done, I am my own, and he has nothing to do with any of this. And each new time I had to acknowledge my father’s name, the Spirit pressed into me and called for repentance of my own blackened heart. I began to ask others why there is such a need to identify one’s father’s name on all official documentation. I quickly learned that individuality is not a virtue in this culture, as it seems to be in Western cultures. In this culture, the family system is an integral aspect of one’s identity, community is valued and prioritized over the individual, and fathers bear responsibility in practical and symbolic ways that can be both positive and beautiful reminders that we belong to someone. I seriously thought that, for the most part, I would be helping people see the powerful truth about ideas having consequences. But, instead, God has revealed a piece of my broken heart and all the pain that still resides through an idea in this culture and probably in many more cultures around the world. We belong to someone, to each other, to family, to parents, and there is more weight to that than the individualistic culture that I grew up in. I thank our Lord for this beautiful aspect of India. He is my father, I have a father, and I am a father.

I will paint all this pain.

Give Peace A Chance? ANOTHER FABULOUS DISCUSSION BETWEEN SEAN McGINTY AND JENNIFER BELL

Sean: So our last discussion revolved around the popularity of zombies. Continuing with the theme of flesh-eating monsters, this time out we'll be talking about politicians! Joking, joking!

Jennifer, what are your thoughts on the relationship between politics and the Christian? My own feeling is that the American church has let itself become far too identified with the political system in general, but what's the appropriate relationship? Should churches as organizations take active roles in politics? Should even individual Christians do so?

Jennifer: Well, I have several initial thoughts. First, we’re all—by nature—“political” beings. Citizens. Under Authority. Desirous of Justice, Order, Ethics. (Hey, we see this in freakin’ “Walking Dead”). This is part of human nature. So, there’s that. Second, I think the popular understanding of political involvement—taking part in public affairs? Voicing policy opinions?—is ultimately a matter of integrity: saying what you mean, meaning what you say. Putting your money where your mouth is. That sort of thing? Integrity is the issue.

That said, is there an important distinction between a political Church and a political individual?

I think you should talk, though. Tell me why you think the church is overly political? Is that fair? Then, I’ll talk a little about how I think you may be right, though politics are inescapable too?

Sean: I'm not sure I'd describe the church as overly political per se, just that we've allowed ourselves to be too often viewed within the framework of politics. So, for example, I've thankfully never heard a sermon extolling the virtues of limited government, but the public perception is that most Christians hold to the Republican Party line on that issue. Now, I don't think there's anything wrong with Christians holding to a view of limited government, but there is something wrong when the church's identity becomes blurred with a political party.

It's important to say here that there are times when political overlap is inevitable. When Scripture directly speaks to a particular topic that has become politicized, such as abortion or homosexuality, Christians must hold to the biblical position. This may cause us to be associated with a given party, but we should make it clear that we're not influenced by the party's opinion, only by the Word. (The danger here is that Christians might be played as pawns by politicians who give lip service to our concerns but have no real Christian conviction of their own. But that topic brings us down a deep rabbit hole . . .)

In areas that the Bible doesn't speak to, like a preferred form of government, I'm of the opinion that the church should not take a stand. Individual Christians might but, even here, it shouldn't be at the expense of spreading the Gospel.

I suppose my main concern is that Christians have been influenced by political parties to die on hills that we really, as Christians, have no vested interest in. A balanced budget may be a good thing, but it's not something that the Church should be concerned about. Of course, the whole thing becomes far more complicated when we look at the individual Christian's role in politics.

Jennifer:  I’m not entirely sure I’m following you. I might need some clarification. I do think I can agree with you on the problematic nature of the Church becoming too closely associated with a given political party. But, if possible, could you help me out on some things?

Can you give me an example of what you mean when you say that Christians might hold to a political position at the expense of spreading the Gospel? What does that mean? What does that look like?

And then what is this dying-on-hills thing, without our vested interests?

If you answer this, I might offer this pretty strong position: no political issue is neutral.

Sean: Well, when I’m talking about dying on hills, I’m referring to elevating an issue to a place of primary importance. Allowing it to become the thing that we’re willing to fight tooth and nail over.

Let’s use capitalism and socialism as examples. Scripture prescribes neither, although often, in the U.S., we’ve seen Christians giving the implicit impression that capitalism is the Christian system. I’m not saying here that Christians should or shouldn’t be Capitalists; I’m merely saying that, since Scripture doesn’t directly speak to the matter, it’s not appropriate to allow the system to become closely related to Christianity.

  

In terms of no political issue being neutral, I’d agree with you in the sense that, as Romans 14:23 states, “whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.” So, yes, insofar as our political values are informed (or not informed) by our faith, they are not neutral. But does this mean that there is a Christian position for every political topic?

Jennifer: I actually think that there might be. Isn’t this part of dominion? Of taking dominion? How else are we to live in the world, but not be of the world? Maybe this all depends on one’s understanding of eschatology.

If we are to love our neighbors, care for widows and orphans, have dominion, take thoughts captive, etc., then maybe we are—by necessity—required to come to terms with every little nuance of the world, including limited government or balancing the budget.

That said, our affiliation isn’t with a political party but with the Kingdom of God. I’m not totally sure what that looks like, but I know that I’m not personally thrilled about being associated with the Right or the Left. I definitely agree with you on the problematic nature of Christianity being linked to particular political parties. For me, personally, it’s always been a little embarrassing. Sometimes, I really just want to distance myself from the scene, if you know what I mean.

So, let’s say you’re right. Now what? How should the Church respond to political realities? It becomes terribly messy to figure out how we should systematically handle public policy. Allow me to throw out some random, haphazardly put together questions for you.

Separation of Church and State: Realistic? Problematic? What are your thoughts?

Gun Control: Is the Bible silent on this?

What about feeding the poor, taking care of widows, pooling our funds: are we talking socialism?

Chick-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby: yay or nay?

These questions are terribly unfair, but humor me. I think the ultimate question has to do with what should a Christian do—as opposed to what should a Christian not do. What do you think? How, then, do Christians behave politically?

Sean: Wow, that’s a lot of questions! I think how a person goes about answering them depends on one’s understanding of the relationship between the Church and the State. There are two major views a Christian is likely to come across. The first is the Two Kingdoms model, which holds that God has established two realms of authority (Church and State) with their own set of responsibilities and powers. The second is the Transformational model, which believes that believers help work out God’s redemption of creation through cultural and political vehicles. Both of these views, however, have various subcategories and nuances, so I don’t want to give the impression that either is monolithic. For example, both Luther and Calvin held to a Two Kingdoms model, but they each had different understandings of the details. Luther was largely okay with government involvement in the church, while Calvin was not.

I subscribe to a Two Kingdoms view, so when it comes to separation of Church and State, I think it’s realistic, necessary, and problematic. The Bible makes it fairly clear that living under the New Covenant means observing this division. This become troublesome in that, while we should hope that the State will be fair and just, we shouldn’t be surprised when it isn’t (living in a fallen word). Nevertheless, we’re still called to respect the authority of the state over matters that have been granted to it. Ultimately, I think the Two Kingdoms model better preserves the tension of the Christian life. We’re resurrected, but not yet. The Kingdom has come, but it hasn’t yet been fully consummated. We’re in the world, but not of it.

One of the outgrowths of the Two Kingdoms model is that there’s not a single Christian way to do politics. Let’s use social programs as an example. A Christian might argue for a larger government with a more expansive system in place to care for the needy, or he may feel that a smaller government system should exist to encourage individual independence in the recipients. In both cases, the Christian should be motivated by a love for his or her neighbor. In neither case is the Christian arguing for a method that is explicitly stated in Scripture. I can’t, therefore, say that the Christian model is to expand (or contract) Medicare coverage. What I can say is that, following the Lord’s instruction to love my neighbor, in this situation, I believe Option A is better than Option B.  In any case, the view should not be that the world is a little more redeemed because my preferred political program is in place. Rather, the concern should be to spread the Gospel and make disciples, who will subsequently perform their vocations (including politics) in a fair and just manner.

Jennifer: I do appreciate your Two Kingdom/Transformational response, which I’m embarrassed to admit I’ve never heard before. My gut response is that I’m probably of the Transformational School o’ Thought. This comes, my guess, from an eschatological stance, and my own background in International Relations. When I think of something like human rights or civil rights, my first thought is that, not only is there a required Christian response (to which you would probably agree), but there is also a best Christian response (to which you might not agree?)—and it is unequivocally our responsibility to figure out what that best Christian response is.

At the end of the day, we are responsible for properly responding to issues surrounding both gun control and Chick-Fil-A.

Sean: I'm pretty new to the concepts myself, so I'm right with you. I'm not sure if I'd deny that there's a "best Christian way." My feeling is more that the best way, when it comes to political engagement, isn't always clear, and that Christians have a lot of freedom to take different approaches. The question I keep coming back to is "would advocating for a particular political position qualify for church discipline?" In certain cases where we have clear biblical direction, such as with abortion, I think that would be appropriate. But for the vast majority of political issues, Scripture is fairly silent. In those cases, I think we need to be cautious in our affiliations. Again, that doesn't mean Christian shouldn't be politically involved, but it does mean that we should be hesitant to attach a political position to the name of Christianity.

Jennifer: Thank you, Sean, for your thought-provoking discussion! Please feel free to send us your comments!

The Mark of Cain and the Kingdom of Heaven by Andrew Stravitz

There are two facts about the mark of Cain: first, he was an angry murderer of his own brother; and second, he received mercy to live the life his brother deserved.  And there, at the very start, is the offensive justice of the kingdom of heaven. See Genesis 4.

Jesus said that anyone who is angry with his brother is guilty of murder. Then He taught that the Father of heaven knows we’re all evil, and so we should ask whatever we want, because He always gives good gifts to His wicked children, so that we also may have undeserved life like Cain. See Matthew 5-7.

In fact, He gave us His own life—He became our Abel. The Lord's Prayer is the plea for a life we don't deserve in the kingdom of heaven: the Heavenly Father, the hallowed name, the accomplished will, the meeting of kingdoms, the daily bread, the forgiveness of sin, the forgiveness of enemies, the escape from temptation. And all these things are given to us in Jesus's own life. In Jesus Himself, these requests for undeserved life are answered. Jesus Himself is our Abel, whose life we don't deserve and yet receive. See Matthew 6.

We all have on us the mark of Cain: radical guilt and radical mercy.  And, like Cain, whose brother's blood cried out against him, we also receive the scandalous justice of grace in the kingdom of heaven. We all have on us the mark of Cain: but even louder than the blood of Abel cried, Jesus's blood shouts to God on our behalf.  We have "come to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." See Hebrews 12:22-24.

Pastor V’s Shout Outs by Vermon Pierre

Shout out to:

1. Toby Morris and his recent cartoon on the various advantages and benefits different social classes have. He creatively shows something that I wish I could tell every middle to upper class American – that none of us should walk around acting as if we “made it” all on our own, without any help, by the own strength of our guts and willpower. A Christian worldview reminds us that every person is a recipient of divine grace, some of us having a received a lot more than others. It should always make us humble and, in turn, gracious and empathetic towards others who may be several rungs lower on the social ladder than we are. It should make us regularly ask ourselves, “How will I steward whatever resources I have for the glory of God and the good of others?”

2. Ryan Holiday and his post, “The Perfect Spouse is the Best Life Hack No One Told You About.” The main point of the post is to show that marriage is really, really good for us, despite what our culture says. He writes, “We’re supposed to believe that relationships tie people down, that they are the death knell for creativity and ambition. Nonsense.” That’s exactly right! There are lots of other good lines like this in the post. Holiday doesn’t seem to be a Christian but he points to something Scripture makes beautifully clear – that marriage is a good gift from God, so don’t run away from it. Male twenty-somethings. in particular, don’t listen to the lies of the culture. You want to be “manly” man? You want to be successful in your career? You want to be successful in life? Then start taking faithful committed Christian women out on dates so you find someone you can marry! Your church family might even help you out (if you ask nicely, of course)!

A Response on Courtship by Jessica Tucker

(On May 19, 2015, we posted A Conversation With Holly Walsh and Jennifer Bell on Courtship, which is really fun stuff.  Jessica Tucker kindly offered the following response.)

I'll bite! As a single woman in her thirties, the idea of courtship sounds about as fairytale-ish as the Hallmark Channel movies with which I have a love/hate relationship. The "dating" world out there is hard for everyone. From what I observe, there are too many opportunities for people to do whatever they darn well please without any regard for consequences. Those with the  "I want to date for the purpose of marriage" bent are seemingly, let's face it, S-O-L.

Cynical, you say? You're absolutely right. Tell me how you would feel after being asked for the umpteenth time if you are dating anyone and find that you must pitifully reply, “No, there just doesn’t seem to be anyone out there for me.”

I have been told over and over again by my well-meaning Christian friends, "There's nothing wrong with you" and “it’s the guy's fault" and “guys are just so immature"  and “you’re better off single and carefree.”  But when it’s not your heart’s desire to be free of a married life, it’s a bit hard to swallow: ya feel me?

I think one of the pieces we are missing in the whole equation is men. Men who are willing to come alongside other men and talk to them about what courting/dating/marriage looks like. Men who will teach others how to pursue a woman they think they might be interested in rather than play with her emotions, as well as how to avoid all the pressure of having a physical relationship prior to marriage.

The other piece is women. Women who can help other women understand they are not objects for men to play with and that they shouldn’t manipulate men into relationships. Women who will teach others that to catch and/or keep a man, you don't HAVE to have sex with him and that our worth comes, not from being in a relationship with a man (even a good one), but from Christ's death and resurrection on the cross. We each have worth because of God's pursuit of us.

My married friends tell me that some of their loneliest moments have come after they were married to godly men. They tell me that, like y'all said, marriage is hard. It’s hard because we continue to deal with sin and selfishness as God works to draw us unto Himself—only now, one’s own issues are multiplied by two.

But I digress, we aren't talking about marriage, yet!

So what do those of us in this messy, single-but-want-to-be-married state do? We wait . . . We pursue ways to serve the Lord and others. We seek friendships with people for the sake of building other’s up in Christ for the glory of His name. And we keep believing that, one day, according to almost everyone I have talked to (solicited and unsolicited), when we least expect it, the man or woman who is ordained to be our spouse comes along.

Sounds pacifistic and maybe a little hopeless at times, but from what I see in the Word, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

I thank God that I have women and men around me to help guide me in this path God has laid out. I would love to call myself “content in my circumstances,” but I’m not sure that’s the case all the time. Thank God for His grace over me! 

All that being said, I really don't think it’s the method with which we date that matters. You can call it whatever you want. However, you decide to pursue relationships, in dating, or courting, the thing I KNOW is this: we need the church and the people around us who we can trust to help! Above all, though, what we really need is to commit to people’s discipleship, making that the priority rather than their marital status. A tall order, you say? I agree completely!!

The Attributes of God in Exodus by John Talley III

Christian pastors and theologians have written extensively on the topic of God’s attributes. In fact, A.W. Pink wrote the Christian classic, The Attributes of God. Another popular book dedicated to this subject is The Knowledge of the Holy by A. W. Tozer. These are two phenomenal books that every Christian should have on their bookshelves. I hope to embark on the same journey these authors did, but by primarily looking at Exodus 1-14. This book was written by Moses, and it highlights the Israelites departure from the land of Egypt from systemic injustice under Pharaoh. I will highlight seven attributes that reveal Yahweh’s character.

1)   Providence: God’s intervention and protective care under certain circumstances. In Exodus 1:15-17, the king of Egypt gave a decree for all male children to be killed. Since the Hebrew midwives feared God and not man, they did not listen to him, which led to the birth of Moses. God in His divine providence protected Moses from danger, even down to the detail of the river in which he was placed as a baby (Exodus 2:1-10).

2)   Immanence: the nearness or closeness of God. God is not as the Deists claim—a  “watchmaker god,” one who creates the world and steps away and has no involvement within that world. This idea holds that God simply leaves the world to function on its own. But is this the God of the Bible? Exodus 3:2-4 shows us He is interactive in His creation. The burning bush is the direct revelation Moses has from Yahweh. God is near and close to those He wants to reveal Himself to.

3)    Goodness: How many times have we heard this saying “God is good”? If we had a penny for every time we heard it, we will be rich! Well, maybe not rich—but you know what I mean.  It is true God is good, though! Exodus 3:7-8 shows this attribute. The people of Israel were being afflicted, and God heard their cry. Verse 8 says that God has “come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land to a good and broad land, a land flowing with milk and honey.” Think about how God has delivered you from affliction in your life. Think about the Gospel, and how He has delivered His people from the bondage of sin. We will spend eternity unpacking the goodness of our God, Jesus Christ.

4)   Sovereignty: God is the authority, and He is in control of all things. This is what sovereignty communicates. He is sovereign over creation, salvation, and even hearts: in Exodus 9:12, we read that God is sovereign over Pharaoh’s heart. It says, “But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them, as the Lord had spoken to Moses.” Every time I read this, I get the chills. The God of the Bible has authority and dominion over all, because He is the sovereign creator of all.

5)   Omnipotence: Yahweh is all-powerful.  It’s a good thing that we have a powerful God. What if we didn’t? Exodus 10:12-14 reveals this power. Because of the rebellion from Pharaoh for not letting God’s people free, there were a total of ten plagues that came upon the land of Egypt. The eighth plague was locusts. God supernaturally gave Moses power to stretch out his hand and locusts covered the land. Verse 13 says, “So Moses stretched out his staff over the land of Egypt, and the Lord brought an east wind upon the land all that day and all that night. When it was morning, the east wind had brought the locusts.” This is power!

6)   Wrath: I think all of the plagues demonstrate the wrath of God in a unique way. But the final plague, death of the firstborn, was devastating to the Egyptians. “At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of the livestock” (Exodus 12:29).

7)   Grace: the underserved love or favor that Yahweh grants to individuals based upon His will. Exodus 14:1-32 is a picture of His marvelous grace when He allowed the people of Israel to cross the Red Sea. Praise the Lord for the amazing grace found in Him!

As we read the narrative of Exodus, let’s look at the character of God in the story because He is the hero that our eyes should be fixed on. There are more than seven attributes of God, but try and find these seven at work in your Christian walk today. What is God up to you in your life? Do you see His goodness? Sovereignty? Immanence? If so, let’s rejoice in the triune God of the Scriptures.

A Conversation With Holly Walsh and Jennifer Bell on Courtship

Well, if we're not talking about how to manage marriage/sex, we're talking about how to get in on this marriage/sex business. Oh, that sounds so crude. Alas, how should we talk about it? What's a single Christian to do? If you're single, you know what's out there. Dating naysayers. Crazy romantic idealists. Your mother.

So, we're going to talk about courtship, and we have someone perfect for our discussion: Holly Walsh. She did it! Not only did she enter into a courtship and marry the guy, but now—years later—she finds herself thinking about how it all works, because she has kids who are on the edge of that precipice I personally dread: that time when one's kids are thinking about relationships with members of the opposite sex. Thankfully, I'm not there yet. But she is.

Jennifer: Holly, you expert you. Most of us have an understanding of what dating is, but could you explain what "courtship" is, and why Christians are possibly into it?

Holly: Expert?! Pshaw. You crack me up, Jennifer.

Jennifer: Before we get going, I should share that Holly and I go waaaaayyyyy back. We’ve known each other for maybe twenty years (I’m not entirely sure how long it’s been), so it’s likely I’m going to say some outrageous things. My mistake is that I will also publicly post those outrageous things.

Holly: In all honesty, after being married for fifteen years, I feel much less sure of anything anymore. But I will share my experiences and thoughts on the topic of courtship in hopes that they might be helpful to someone somewhere.

I think that the term courtship has meant so many things throughout the ages. Really, the term has been used to describe the most arranged of unions and the most casual of romances.  I think if we’re talking about what courtship means today in Christian circles, the term courtship is used in contrast to dating, and is meant to be a focused pursuit of a spouse with marriage being the end goal. 

It’s not hard to see the problems with dating. It’s so easy to get hurt or to waste time on someone who isn't serious about marriage. It’s too easy to go too far and end up committed to the wrong person. Dating is often messy, painful, and time-consuming.

These days, things are even harder in the dating world. The social pressure to "hook up," send pics, and sext all put women at high risk for making SERIOUS mistakes. It is no wonder that Christians are running for the shelter of something like courtship. 

Jennifer: Okay, so let me clarify something. Courtship is for the purpose, then, of finding someone to marry? In dating, people often say that they’re just “having fun.” One can date without the intention to marry. Courtship is not like that, right? Also, let’s be clear on this point, too. Courtship presupposes or assumes that the parties are not engaged in premarital sex?

Holly:  I would say, yes. The goal of courtship is to find a spouse and its purpose is pursue someone who seems like a good match and get to know him or her more to see if things could work out in the future.

The rules vary here and there, but basically the hope is that courtship can protect both parties from things like heartbreak and getting physically intimate ahead of time. Courtship assumes that both parties are wanting marriage and are ready for it (as much as one can be ready for marriage). It begins like this: The guy should observe potential girls kind of stealth-like.

Jennifer: I love that. Stealth-like.

Holly: When he finds one, the guy should ask the father of the girl for permission to court. The idea of spending time alone together is a big no-no. Ideally, one would have mutual friends to hang out with throughout the courtship process. Another caution that we had heard in our circle was to avoid establishing romantic attachments throughout the process. So, basically, no flowers, love notes, mixed tapes, etc. That way, if things didn’t work out, no one would get hurt.  These were the guidelines we were working with when going into our courtship.

Jennifer: That no-romantic-attachment thing sounds like some B.S. to me, considering—let’s be frank—the poor girl is rarely gonna see the love notes and mixed tapes again.

I don’t fully get how it works. My husband and I didn’t really do it, though I don’t think we actually dated either. We just skipped everything and got married. I do vaguely remember going to see The Notebook (alone, mind you) and making out in a car, which now strikes me as the epitome of romantic idiocy. That’s going to be one of those outrageous things I regret saying, isn’t it? So, tell me: How did it work for you? How did you guys do it?

Holly: I felt like courtship was weird. I mean, like really, really weird. Our social awkwardness didn’t help. So Jason and I were twenty-seven and twenty-five, respectively. We had known of each other and gone to the same church for a couple years. We almost never talked during those years. Then one day, after church, Jason asked if I’d like to go out with him. Now, our church circle was tight and I knew that he held the same view of courtship that I did at the time. For him to ask me out meant something more than a declaration that he wanted coffee. He must’ve been thinking about marriage . . . with me??? Um, what? Yikes. It was instantly terrifying and nerve-wracking. I called my pastor in a panic, telling him that Jason asked me out. He said that Jason had also talked to him. Uh-oh. So, from the get-go, I felt pressure. It was confusing because I kept thinking that I had to get to know this person and figure out if I liked him enough to marry him. The process was so, so focused. My logical brain was in overdrive . . . Do I like what he does for work? Do I like how he handles things? Do I think he’s cute? How many children does he want? Big questions crowded our times together. We tended to go out alone to public places. We just weren’t able to talk freely with friends. Then, there were all these things—skeletons in my closet—that I had to reveal and I was scared! Sigh. It was awkward. It was NOT fun. 

After about three months of this torture, like a couple of clueless dorks, we agreed we were compatible and decided to proceed with marriage with hardly any emotion stirred. Well, I guess there was a lot of anxiety and fear, now that I think about it. But there were definitely no flowers and no romance. Well, we did make out a couple of times. . . a wonder.

Jennifer: I’m so glad you said that, because I was just going to ask.

Well, let me ask you something. This lack of stirred emotions. Really? Then, why did you make out? And, trust me, I know how it goes. Emotional stirring is not a prerequisite for making out, but you. What were you thinking?

Holly:  Yes, really, there were no romantic feelings. It was so objective. I can only explain the making out thing chemically. Maybe it was the hormones or pheromones??  

I’m sure parents of young adults are completely hopeless and freaked out now. 

Jennifer: I am.

Holly: But back to the Robo-tron nature of it all: although it was not fun, I was okay with something more like a business transaction at the time because of my previous experience with the opposite sex. Previously, I had had no rules or guidance to help me navigate my relationships. I had been led completely by emotions with no logical objectivity, and I wound up in a huge mess. So, in an earnest effort to avoid that again, logical and dry were fine with me, even though it completely goes against my natural emotive personality. And, as far as Jason was concerned, he was definitely in his element.

Jennifer: Ha! The logical and dry thing worked for him!

Holly: I think he loved it.

Jennifer: What do you think of this lack of romance? I mean, one big lesson we tend to learn as adults is that romance is not the same thing as love. It makes sense to not base this massive decision on how one feels, but . . . is there a problem here too?

Holly:  I think the lack of romance definitely can cause some problems. First thing, the idea is to protect the heart from becoming attached prematurely.  Okay, I get that, but—in reality—some attachment is unavoidable. Let’s face it, if things don’t work out, someone is gonna get his or her feelings hurt, even if there has been no sweet talk. Besides, I think making someone you are interested in possibly marrying feel special, loved, and beautiful is a very good thing. I give honest compliments to complete strangers and thoughtful gifts to friends. I just spent fourteen bucks on a birthday present for my son’s friend. It’s okay to make a special person feel special. Now, in our personal story, this lack of romance in the beginning did create a painful obstacle in our relationship.  After we were married, like you mentioned, there were still no mixed tapes or love notes and, honestly, I felt a little disappointed. Actually, I was devastated. Was I just acquired like a head of cattle?? That took some time for us to work through. Like nine or ten years.

Jennifer: I hear you, sister. TIM, I WANT A #$@% MIXED TAPE.

Holly: Jason just reminded me that he did indeed create two cds for me: one in 2003, four years and three children after we were married; and he made another one in 2006.  He is getting better with age, I might add. Last year, he danced with me and he will be dancing again here soon for my birthday.

Jennifer: I should say that I’m not a big fan of courtship, but I really don’t know the best way to go about this relationship thing. What bothers me is the artificiality of it all. It sounds like myth, like fantasy. Under very contrived circumstances, two poor kids are supposed to “get to know” each other—under the false presumption (false, if you ask me) that they’re being protected. The truth is they’re not being themselves, and it’s going to be a big shock when they wake up naked and committed to a stranger. Yuck.

Holly:  Ooooh, interesting. I pretty much think the waking up committed to a stranger is going to happen to some degree in any circumstance. I mean, really, you just can’t know what you’re signing up for.   But I do agree, there is kind of a false presumption about protection in courtship. The reality is that this sin thing is just hard to shake.

Jennifer: You mentioned the pressure, the Big Questions, the skeletons in the closet. Big questions and skeletons (which we all have, if not externally then internally) seem to require intimacy and privacy. That pressure creates an artificiality. Also, it’s as if courtship assumes that the ideal is the reality, that guys and girls will behave in perfectly God-honoring ways, free from their baggage or their misconceptions about gender or sexuality (not to mention the assumption that there’s a dad to oversee the situation or that the girl is still a girl and not a woman in her thirties or forties). The truth of the matter is that these things mess up courtship. Guys and girls are not free from their baggage, their misconceptions, or their sexuality. Courtship is saying: make this big huge decision as if the world were perfect, though it’s not. What do you think of that?

Holly:  I think that is an interesting way to analyze the problem. I also think that there’s a real problem with courtship. It seems to fit into a purer world better. Because it does seem too contrived. The idea of really getting to sort out your own misconceptions and figure out who it is that you should marry—well, I don’t mean to be radical, but it is a wonder any marriage ever makes it.

Jennifer: I agree with you. In all honesty, I’ve gotten a lot of counsel on how to deal with marriage-related issues that might work under ideal circumstances, but not in a fallen world. And it can be devastating. So do we shift our dating/courtship/marriage schemes to fit a fallen world, or do we hold on tightly no matter what the costs (which may include an emotionally-crippled marriage)?

Holly:  You know, I think there are so many factors involved in each person’s situation that we have to custom-tailor the process to each individual. Things like personality, history, family situation, social circles, and sin tendencies have to be considered when trying to guide an individual. I am thinking of my two eldest. One is incredibly reserved (like dad) and you would think the other was the son of Don Juan.  They need help in different ways.

I think one thing to hold onto is involving people like parents (if they are around) or close family or friends who know you to help and be really involved in the process of finding the right person. The one thing that makes a relationship successful is commitment to making it work and doing the work to grow.

Jennifer:  And back on the girls. Let’s just totally rip up courting. (Defenders, feel free to comment.) I think there’s an irony involved in the courtship philosophy. In striving for purity, it renders women objects. By trying to keep them from being mere sex objects, it objectifies women. They become solely sexual beings. Guys are wary of these living, breathing sexual objects who are either marriage material or they are not. Every girl is viewed through this prism: Do I want her?

Holly: Hmm. I don’t know, exactly. The girls are at liberty to choose as well, but in a different way, sort after they have already been chosen.  I see what your saying. I think it’s just not natural. Like, it would be better to find someone with whom you share interest during an outing . . . but then it is hard to find someone you gel with who is also interested in God, marriage, and commitment. So, sometimes, it’s good to let go completely of the “natural” thing, and have more of an arrangement.  I like the idea of Christian singles groups doing outings and finding true love more naturally, but with guidance and a pre-commitment assumption . . . I don’t know. Geez.

Jennifer:  Yeah. So there’s this tension between contrived set-ups and natural affections. As a mom of girls, I know I don’t want for my girls to be objectified, to feel as if their value hinges on whether they’re approached by a young stoic guy who will only talk to them if he finds them suitable for marriage. I also don’t want for them to be in loveless marriages, where the guy’s all into—what was that one article, “Hyper-headship and the Scandal of Domestic Abuse in the Church”?—hyper-headship at the expense of love and intimacy. But I also don’t want for them to be deceived by the whirlwind of misconceptions about romance.

Holly:  I think I could see the Christian courtships of today being satisfying in certain situations. I’m thinking about young, sheltered Christians (that was not me) who like rules and who tend to have a harder time socializing. Maybe? I’m thinking of some people I know who I’m guessing would just love the whole thing. I don’t know. But even then, moms, please explain to your sons how to make a girl feel special. I don’t think there is any need to stifle a guy’s clumsy romantic efforts. He needs practice, for crying out loud.  There are some good and not so good things about it. With carefulness, I think there can be a more balanced way.

Jennifer:  Okay, so in conclusion, let’s try to offer a more balanced approach. You have a bunch of strapping, fine-looking male children—some of whom I may come to dread at some point in my life. (Holly, WHY are your kids so good-looking? Why? Why? Why?) What are you going to do about this dating/courtship thing? How will you handle it?

My girls are little, and I’m in denial for a while—but I do know that I don’t want for them to get sucked into the vast black hole of the romantic comedy/prince-on-white-horse/passionate-love-songs-sung-by-hunky-dumb-guys that I fell into. Nor do I want them in sad, lonely, falsely-spiritual marriages that suck them dry. I said this stuff already. Sorry. So what do we do?

Holly: I feel the same way. I hope for my boys to find a girl that they really like, and I hope they enjoy sweet friendship and deep passionate love in their marriages.

Jennifer, I wish I could offer some wisdom on how to guide girls. I am just so glad I don’t have to deal with that.  This is what we have so far for my boys:

  

·      Pursue ONLY when READY for marriage.

·      Get ready for marriage.

·      Before you are ready, keep lots of girls as friends at a nice safe distance and study them, learning about how they are different. Learn what you like and think about what you want.

·      When you are ready, PRAY.  Find someone you really like. Don’t be too distracted by charm and beauty. Look for someone who loves God.

·      If you can’t find someone, go on a Christian singles outing?

·      Let her know you really like her. Ask her out.

·      Pray

·      Try not to be alone. You CANNOT handle it; it is a chemistry thing or a physics thing. At least go to public places.

·      PRAY for help and wisdom, and talk to people you trust about your developing relationship—especially your mom.

·      Get to know the girls’ friends and family.

·      Read some books?

Jennifer:  Well, we could go on and on. Maybe another piece if there’s interest. How does one get ready for marriage?

Talking to one’s mother is definitely key. Thank you, Holly. You’re a pro!

Pastor V's Shout-Outs for May 14th by Vermon Pierre

Shout out to:

1. Robert Gelinas and his new website and podcast, The Sankofa Experience. The aim of the website and the podcast is to talk about the black experience through a Christian lens. He’s put out some interesting material so far. The one that has me doing some more thinking right now is the concept of being a jazz theologian – there’s a lot to unpack out of that one! You can subscribe to his podcast via iTunes.

2. Estrella Payton and the accolades she got for her recent art exhibit at The Arts Beacon website. Here is a great excerpt from the blog post about her exhibit:

"All in all, this installation creates a situation, a way to interact with one another, that is safe and crafted.  When navigating through the world, we all have to interact with people from all walks of life and with different personal stories and histories, and meeting people and interacting with those that are different can be intimidating, especially when the interaction is forced.  But this installation creates an environment that is loose and unrestricted, a way to learn how to interact with others, a playground where adults learn to play nice with others, and a torn apart building beckoning for us to wander around.” 

Lots of biblical themes to explore in that excerpt, don’t you think? Great job, Estrella! You can see pictures of the excerpt at her website.

3. Denzel Washington, keeping it real at the recent Mayweather/Pacquiao by showing up wearing an Adidas sweatsuit, black Yankees cap, a scraggly handlebar moustache, and an expression that says, “I’m Denzel Washington. I wear whatever I want to wear! Now can you put $20 down on pump #3 and give me a pack of Newports?”

Roosevelt Reflection: Seminary Wife by Stacy Stravitz

When my husband and I packed up and moved across the country to go to seminary in Chicago, I was excited. The seemingly high calling of becoming a seminarian and wife made me willing to take on the relocation from Phoenix and all of its challenges. I quit the nursing job that I had landed right out of college. I left behind the church I had been tightly connected to. I left the friends I had made and the mentors I had. I moved farther away from family than I had ever been.

We lived off campus. Once my husband was fully immersed in his classes and reading, I was still searching for a job. I was spending my days in a basement apartment trying to pinch pennies and trying not to miss home too much. In those weeks of waiting, I started to question, Why am I here? My husband had his thing, but what in the world should I be doing? Was I just along for the ride?"

I knew that it was my calling to be a "wife." To be emotionally supportive, and to help my husband pursue his calling. But that knowledge fell a bit flat when it came to my purpose and day-to-day drive. I was a smart woman, who had technical skills in nursing, and who was going crazy without a seemingly important "to do" list for my hours of solitude! There I was, waiting on the Board of Nursing to transfer my license, twiddling my thumbs and watching iTunes move trailers.

Eventually, I took a job at a children's hospital, on the night shift. The first months of being new at that hospital, sleep-deprived, and cold (new to Midwest winters without proper attire) led to many tearful drives in big city traffic. It took us six months to find a church that we wanted to be a part of. My fellow seminary wives lived closer to campus. Things felt pretty rough.

The move was also incredibly stressful on our marriage. My husband and I were—in essence—alone, and we were rapidly discovering our initial assumptions about each other were dramatically mistaken. Those first months, the basement would be filled with yelling, rage, bitterness, scathing accusation, blame, and disappointment. My husband thought about divorce, while I wallowed in my self-justified hurt. 

And so I died. We died.

Without fully understanding even what was happening, I leaned in. I gave up believing my emotions dictated what was true. I tried to admit when I was wrong. And it was stupidly hard for me to do that. Sometimes it took hours of painful conversation. It felt like agony. I changed some of my quirks, even though I staunchly believed there was nothing that really had to be changed. I broke, and my husband broke, and it hurt so badly. 

The fact that all of this happened when we went away to seminary is coincidental?

Seminary was the catalyst in our particular case. We went to learn more about biblical languages, theology, and the church. But, if there is one thing to be learned when you go away to study God, it is to learn your own embarrassing failures. They are to be undone. I needed to be an emotional disaster of a wife, and to see that my own rabbit hole of delusional thinking goes farther than I ever knew. And then I needed to stop looking at myself altogether, to stop navel-gazing—as my pastor in the city put it—and rest in Jesus.